The Witching Hour Chronicles
My name is Christine and on WHC I will talk all things spiritual!
The Witching Hour Chronicles
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What makes a witch a witch? Christine, Toni, and guest Mel dive deep into spirituality versus religion in this thought-provoking continuation of their previous discussion. The conversation begins with Christine sharing how her husband's religious family discovered her altar and immediately jumped to conclusions about "summoning demons" - a perfect jumping-off point to examine how fear becomes a powerful control mechanism within religious structures.
The trio explores the fundamental differences between witchcraft as a practice and organized religion, challenging listeners to reconsider preconceived notions about both. Mel brings valuable insight as she explains, "A witch studies crafts - healing, teaching, learning, intuition, mediumship, spirit talking." This leads to fascinating parallels between religious rituals and pagan practices, revealing how similar they are in purpose despite vastly different cultural perceptions.
Historical context enriches the discussion as they examine how the persecution of "witches" throughout history was primarily about controlling women who stepped outside prescribed roles. The definition of "witch" itself reveals deeply gendered biases that persist today. As Toni notes, "In the collective spirit of goodness and joy and blessing, we're seeing things for what they truly are, versus all the things they have tried to keep you bogged down with."
Personal stories punctuate the conversation, including Toni's powerful experience receiving messages from beyond that healed a relationship with her father. The hosts discuss how spiritual awakening often involves removing the "blinders" placed by societal conditioning, allowing us to reconnect with our authentic selves and intuitive abilities. Ultimately, the conversation circles back to the highest spiritual truth - love - regardless of which path leads us there.
Subscribe to the podcast for more enlightening conversations that challenge conventional thinking and expand your spiritual horizons. Visit our website to support the show and gain access to exclusive bonus content.
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Welcome to the Witching Hour Chronicles. So today I have more guests. I have Toni again Hello, she's awesome and we have Mel joining us. We are going to kind of a part two to our spirituality, religion, episode. We figured that's a topic that we can endlessly go on about. We have someone new here to give new insight to different beliefs and, yeah, so this should be fun. Well, christine, kick it off. Okay, I'm gonna start with. I had something come up this weekend.
Speaker 2:I normally don't like to talk about family members too much because people don't like that, but I found out this weekend. So my husband's family are all very, very Christian. Very Okay, they're apostolic. I don't know if any of you have heard of that, but it's a very, very strict form of Christianity. They don't watch TV, women don't cut their hair, no makeup, no jewelry, jewelry very strict. So I have very different beliefs. I don't believe in religion at all.
Speaker 2:I have an altar set up in my basement where I have all my. It's like my office down there where I do my podcasting. I it's my personal space and someone in my husband's family came over and was in my basement. He saw my altar set up and decided he was going to snoop while we were down there and literally go through my desk, because what he found was not necessarily sitting on my altar, but it was on my desk and it was something that said witchcraft on it and it was a box of candles. And he decided to take pictures of it and send it to other family members. And now they have been telling their children, who are some of them adults, some of them still teenagers be careful around auntie christine, she's a witch, she can put a curse on you, and they believe I've been summoning demons in my basement. So I only wanted to share this because, yes, it's kind of bothers me a little bit, but I really don't care what anybody thinks about me, because really you shouldn't.
Speaker 2:But I wanted to share this because it kind of can kick off a topic about being afraid of what you don't know. And I feel like in religion they try to put fear in you about a lot of things. Things I believe in have been around since before Christianity. What do you guys? Well, speaking about the fear-based there's a great deal of that in religion throughout history and over time and as used as a tool to control people. And still to this day this continues and still to this day this continues.
Speaker 2:And it's just, it's just silliness to think that just because you see, see things differently, we could both be looking out a window and see something and see it very differently, because it's through your own eyes of what you're viewing before you and how you take it within yourself to decide whether it's good or bad. If we are a person in our soul who, ultimately, is just about goodness and love, then it doesn't matter how you go about it. I can plant a seed this way and I can plant a seed that way. As long as I water it and nurture it, it's going to grow. It doesn't mean that this way is correct and this way is wrong. It means it's different, um, and I I just think that, for this topic that we're hitting on today, this is a good place to start about the differences between the way people think their spiritual side, versus the religious controlled side. Mel, what do you think about that?
Speaker 1:Well, there's so many like. Well, first off, religion and spirituality. Wicca's religion and so is paganism, both of them are actually a religion. Wicca is way more organized. I like it. It isist organized. I like it, it is very organized. I mean, if you go through their rituals and the Lord and the lady and and how it's set up, you could also look at how the Catholic do theirs. It is exactly the same witchcraft and that's where people get so messed up and that's where I, you know, when you were talking about your family seeing the word witchcraft, right. What if you would have said phd, right, would that have changed? Because what is a witch? What is a witch? That's a good question.
Speaker 2:That is a good question. I was talking with my 17 year old daughter about this and I told her what was going on and she said the same thing she goes. I just don't understand what makes a witch a witch.
Speaker 1:The practice Right A witch. It's a witchcraft, but it is a craft just like anything else. You practice it.
Speaker 2:If you're a pianist, you might have practice. Yes, it is your craft, it is your craft.
Speaker 1:It is also music is power. Music creates feeling, it creates emotion, it creates thinking, it creates that awe, it creates movement, energy. So it's also a craft which could be witchcraft. You could could turn around witch, like I said. I said a PhD because a doctor does what. He goes to school. He studies A craft, a craft, and that is exactly what a witch does. A witch studies crafts healing, teaching, learning, intuition, mediumship, spirit, talking. They all study that, they practice that. It's not a religion, it's not spirituality. Not all wiccans are witches, not all pagans are witches. It's, I know. You don't even have to be. You could be a catholic witch, you could be a lutheran witch, you could be a pulse. I'm not sure how do you say that? I don't want to apostolic, apostolic, yes, I didn't want to mispronounce that.
Speaker 2:You could be you can't be a baptist witch.
Speaker 1:They'll burn you but yet they are. But right, if you're, if you're, if you're creating a stew, if you're in there and you're stewing in water and herbs, meats, veggies, and you're sitting there thinking and you're thinking, oh, this is going to be so good. Oh, I'm just, you know, I'm in a really good mood and I'm just going to be stirring in all this wonderful intention.
Speaker 2:It's all about intent.
Speaker 1:You're a witch.
Speaker 2:Well, and what's the difference between a witch who's manifesting towards a certain goal and a christian who's praying? Who's praying for the same goal?
Speaker 2:I really don't see that there is any difference but what I am curious about, since this has just come to my mind, is what is the definition of a witch? And not yours and my definition, but what is it out there? Let's Google it. I want to know what's the definition of a witch, because that will give us some avenues that we may not have looked at. And Mel saying things about pagan things. You know, here's a very interesting portion. Here's a very interesting portion. So many, many of Christian and religious holidays are truly actually stemmed from pagan houses.
Speaker 1:Some Some are, some are, some are not. Some are neo-pagan and have been brought into pretty much existence from Gerald Gardner with the Wicca, and that was way back what 1930s? Because you got Alexandria, you got Gardner Alexandria, and that was from Europe and they brought all of that and that's when the Sabbaths became more. But if you look back, yule, the winter solstice, has always been Neopaganism and Wicca just made them more okay, so more accessible I'm gonna ask you this, okay, because you're saying things that I've never heard.
Speaker 2:That's me so what is neopaganism?
Speaker 1:it's new paganism, it's just. It's it's paganism.
Speaker 2:Neopaganism is more like you're taking wicca and you're taking is that kind of like when you go to a bookstore and you're looking for something and it's under like new age.
Speaker 1:Yes, okay, yeah, it's more of the newer um. It's the same thing as paganism.
Speaker 2:Paganism is more of the natural earth bound um the seasons, but don't you think that these things have existed for ever?
Speaker 1:yes, and cause there's like the tracks like that, when you draw pictures on the wall and then you do dances to create, to go out, to get these killings to do hunting and all of that and sure every culture Sure. Every culture has had their rituals.
Speaker 2:They do before any major event in their life.
Speaker 1:Same with.
Speaker 2:Christians. And now, look, I mean, when you get married, you do a big ceremony, when you baptize a baby, I would say baptism, and sometimes you know, in some religions it's when they're a baby and others it's when they're old enough to decide what that choice is. Mel does this, but I agree I was going to say when she said baptizing a baby, I'm like, don't do it.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, that's my opinion, but these are merely rituals you know, and in the Catholic Church, my favorite kind of to pick on a little bit is when you go to a mass. It's stand up, sit down, kneel, all these ridiculous things, and you just kind of like memorize it after a while and then the little bell will ring and you, you know, and if you're at a funeral, we're doing the whole burn with the smell and the sprinkling of the holy water.
Speaker 1:You know, these are all just ritual things which to me, which is seems very paganism right, which would be the exact same thing that I do in the new moon ritual that I just went to on saturday night down in devere. It it was the exact same thing, you know. We cast our circle, we call the elements, we invite them in. That sounds fun. Oh, it's awesome, it's beautiful. We raise energy and so it feels good, it's beauty.
Speaker 2:It's beauty, and that is something to look at in all of this, because where the beauty comes, where does it come from? It comes from within us, and so you know, we're free thinkers and we're open-minded, uh, and I just want people to know that just because someone says they're a witch doesn't mean we're eating small children, does not mean we're summoning demons.
Speaker 1:We don't like small children.
Speaker 2:They're not so tasty. No, we're not summoning demons in our basement, because I don't. Yeah, makes me think of Hansel and Gretel. I don't know why.
Speaker 1:There's dark energies, but there's no demons.
Speaker 2:That's like saying okay, you guys talked about the devil the last time paganism, witchcraft. The devil doesn't exist. I feel like christianity is the only place there's a heaven and a hell, and you're gonna be punished.
Speaker 1:If you look at that again, it goes back to that duality of you can't have one without the other that's right.
Speaker 2:You cannot have light without dark.
Speaker 1:Without dark, you can go yin-yang you can go duality, you can go light and dark. How can?
Speaker 2:you totally experience happiness if you've never totally experienced sadness, right, you know, because you would have no comparison of these things. So really it's kind of like the scales of balance. And balance is so important in everyday life and I don't care what you believe, balance is there. It has to be, because if it's not, then you have people falling into depression, you have people going off over the edge, doing crazy things that you can't have one without the other. You're right.
Speaker 1:As above, so below, as within, so without.
Speaker 2:As the universe, so the soul I like that you stop to think about that, as above spirit, as below ether, as within quintessence, same as without, and then you've got your universe in your soul, which is all connected and I was reading a book recently I think I've talked to you both about this book that you think about the wheel of life and you have your ups and your downs and you don't stay on the top. I mean, you can be up there for a good while but you don't stay up there, just like you always hit bottom but you don't stay there. It's a circle.
Speaker 1:As with the will of the Sabbath, it's the same Right, it's the same will. So when you get I just ordered one in for myself you get the will of the Sabbath, you get the Sabbaths, and then you get the darkness and the light and the solstice and everything, if you think about it. Christine was saying the other day something about she was being lazy or eating too much. Well, what the hell?
Speaker 2:are you supposed to do? When you hibernate, I feel like a cat when you get down to primal instincts primal, your root chakra primal you know, we are mammals. We're made to hibernate.
Speaker 1:In the wintertime, come fall, we're meant to eat, sleep, eat sleep and guess what I love it, and guess what.
Speaker 2:Spring is just about upon us and now I'm starting to feel like, oh, I'm such a fat ass, I need to lose some weight. But what are you doing? Your movement is becoming more right and I'm trying. I'm like, okay, maybe I want to not eat as much, maybe.
Speaker 1:I want to eat healthier Right.
Speaker 2:This is just so interesting to me because it seems to me as what I'm hearing and inputting into my own thought process and my soul is going like see, see, open your eyes, because this is just the natural progression. You said open my eyes and I got goosebumps Because I feel like we are teaching you something and I would say yes, because all things work together and as we move forward, it allows us to have that great balance that we need and to not feel pressured or get our thinking mind so much that the things that have been planted in our brain disallow us to be the natural beings that we are. Which are natural beings that we are to me is my soul, and my soul is always honest with me. But if I can't see, then I need to grow.
Speaker 1:But sometimes you got to see with these. You have to hear and you have to see.
Speaker 2:This in order to do, in order to take those blinders, but you and I together, at the same time, take those blinders all these gestures. People, I I'm sorry, you can't see them.
Speaker 1:Witches do that Sorry, you know.
Speaker 2:I feel like people have these blinders and you're not born with these blinders. You're conditioned to I don't know how to say it To what you've been fed.
Speaker 1:You're conditioned to have these blinders I don't know how to say it like to what you've been fed, your conditions. You have these blinders.
Speaker 2:And once you start listening to your soul, your intuition, they start coming off.
Speaker 1:A veil, so to speak. Yes, and then you start expanding, and you grow, and you grow. Now let's go back to the definition of a witch.
Speaker 2:All right.
Speaker 1:Because that's interesting, because you're going to find these interesting. Here's the definition of witches A person who practices magic, especially a woman what the fuck? Wow. Okay, a person who practices a neo-pagan religion such as Wicca, which is not true, because not all Wiccans are witches and not all pagans are witches. An old woman who is considered to be mean or ugly I claim that's mine, thank you, okay. A charming or alluring woman or girl if casey would have been here, I would have sorry, you're a mother, I'm the crone, you know, you got it anyways. A supernatural being, usually female again, who is believed to have powers from the devil.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, see, you claim that one yes, so I find that utterly disgusting, isn't that?
Speaker 1:it's it's very well word which has been used figuratively to describe a bewitching young girl since the 18th century. But I believe that the word witch has had a negative concoctions of harmful magic since the old english period, such as eating children. Yeah, yeah, I found that interesting and so magical I wonder who developed this particular definition of a witch.
Speaker 2:I'm going to assume it's a man an interesting thing about this is that this does depict women as evil, and now I'm just going to compare this, because we're doing versus religion, adam and eve. Now who's who gets the blame? It's Eve, it's always the woman.
Speaker 1:I'm just saying I've got such things, say it Say it.
Speaker 2:That's what we're here for.
Speaker 1:First of all, I don't think Eve ate the apple, Probably not. I think Adam ate the apple and when was asked it got stuck in his throat.
Speaker 2:That. So the apple got stuck in Adam's apple. So the apple got stuck. So that kind of takes me and I don't like to talk about my marriage. But I don't know how many times somebody has asked my husband hey, do you want to get together and do this over the weekend? Blah, blah, blah. Oh well, I gotta ask the boss over here. And he does it when he doesn't want to do something. My wife said no, I can't do it because we're already doing this. I just feel like it's a natural thing for the woman to be the bad guy. I have experienced this as well, not only as a spouse. But can you know my hubby, can he come and play DARPA? I'm like, hey, I'm not his mom, ask him. But then I'm gonna put it to you. Well, you may need to make that decision and choose wisely now. Does that make me, you know, an ogre, which actually I was called the ogre in my young marriage.
Speaker 1:I'll take it ogre in my young marriage.
Speaker 2:I'll take it. I don't care. You know it is a silly thing, but don't you think that that tells you the strength and the power of a woman? Yes, and it has been given to you.
Speaker 2:I'll take it 100% and we can also bear many things, and I use that word because bear children. I was gonna say that it is not an easy task. We bear many burdens, we carry many things. We nurture, we love. Well, look at it, when a woman is sick and has the flu but still has to get up and take care of their children, right, and men just get to be cry babies and do you know how many cultures rever what's that is that say that word uh, revered, revered, revered their women.
Speaker 1:No, we are the only culture that do not.
Speaker 2:We do not agree I don't agree with that because and this is- the indians well, they, they. This is going to be off kilter. This is something that I saw in a documentary. And women they weren't revered, they were freaking, tortured. They as not to be on pure, had their vaginas so close what as not to what you don't know about this. Where was this? Oh my gosh interesting. They also had a ritual that what documentary?
Speaker 1:is this I want to write.
Speaker 2:I, I mean, I do know that that women okay there was a famous model that came to the united states. I want to say it was somewhere in. Africa is a very large place, so I want to say it was somewhere in that neck of the woods. However, these little girls, they come to a certain age and the old women take the little girl and they do this ritual they cut off her clitoris I feel like I've heard that somewhere, but I don't. It's quite horrible and then they sew them shut so that they may be pure, so that they may be pure for their husband, not for any other purpose, but for a man, that they may be pure, so that they may be pure for their husband, not for any other purpose, but for a man. All right, and I'm not ripping people apart, but this is the most horrible thing.
Speaker 2:And I watched, I watched this documentary and this little girl, I don't know, I want to say she was. I don't know'm gonna say she was. I don't know, maybe maybe seven, eight, and they do this very barbarically with unclean tools and things and you just see this little child just be like in her eyes. It's the pain and I don't understand, in the distrust, what is she'srust? What has she now learned? What has she now learned? This is a ritual. This is a ritual that happens to young females. For what? For puritanical sake, I don't know. Witches burned because of puritanical thought process. Females because if they enjoyed sex, they're a whore. Witches didn't burn.
Speaker 1:Witches didn't burn. We need to make that very clear, that it wasn't witches, it was women. Women, oh yes, women were tortured, not, not witches, not christians, not, I mean, it was all women, because a lot of these women that were tortured and everything they were upstanding women, right they were. A lot of us were christians. They were.
Speaker 2:They were midwives you know well, that was a thing is they probably didn't practice witchcraft in any shape or form, but because they were midwives and healers, that was considered witchcraft.
Speaker 1:A lot of it was on hearsay. If they had delivered a stillborn child, well, they killed that baby and that was a witch. And now they were. Now, you see. So I mean that's how their cow died and they would blame the woman that was getting milk, or they were giving milk to, or this or that. I mean there was a bar owner, a very prosperous woman back then. You know who was a widow, uh, that I believe she owned a tavern or whatever way back in the you know and so she was well off and she was considered a witch.
Speaker 2:Well, because, if you think about it back then, women didn't own businesses.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can't own businesses. You weren't to be, you know, but that was back then.
Speaker 2:Now we're a little past that, oh please, we are seriously still in that area of. I mean, women still don't get paid as much as men.
Speaker 1:We don't. There's a lot of things, women don't patriarchy way in control. Yes, very much so.
Speaker 2:I mean and to disgrace women for what they have to offer and take away from them. Now, I'm not into sports at all. However, do I think that you know a man in a boxing ring with a woman is fair? I do not. It's a fact that their upper body strength is far greater than a woman. Can the woman take the beating? Probably so, but I just don't like how that has not changed as much as you would think. In my own time frame and I mean I'm 62, I've said it before I worked in a machine shop. I got paid half as much as the guys I worked with and I did twice the work, pissed me off, and that was only shoot. That was in the 80, 80s, think about it. And and not much has changed. It's probably still the same and that's all right.
Speaker 2:I gotta get off of that, but you know it just it just bothers me that women you know have been treated in such a way and that I love that you looked up that definition of a witch, because it's a woman, it's a woman.
Speaker 1:Well, because you don't?
Speaker 2:hear. You don't ever hear about warlocks. What Warlock that's okay. Somebody said that at work the other day. I only heard it on, be Witched Right Right. I was like that is such a stupid. I was like the witch is a witch.
Speaker 1:The witch is a witch. Yeah, yeah. Well, warlock is a.
Speaker 2:Is it? Yeah, almost like a racist term, but not racist, it's. It's just yeah. Oh, okay, I'm getting it.
Speaker 1:Now see again, though, if you were to go with in Wicca, it would be high priestess or high priest. See In Wicca it would be high priestess or high priest, it wouldn't be witch.
Speaker 2:I'm so curious where they came up with the whole witch thing. I don't know. I mean, you know it's not a friendly word, it's very derogatory. It's very derogatory.
Speaker 1:I always like to say a witch is a wise, intuitive, thinking, caring healer Woman, and you can put woman in there. I have to say it. However, I know a lot of witches that are women.
Speaker 2:I'm on several different Facebook groups and I feel like a lot of people that I see commenting on posts and stuff are men. Well it's growing.
Speaker 1:Yes, I think it's becoming more well the more I explore it and practice and learn, yeah, yeah, and it's more men, more aspects of that.
Speaker 2:The dog licking the carpet In his foot. Yeah, somebody said warlock the other day at work. Well, first they said wizard and I was like, okay, harry Potter.
Speaker 1:Right, you know, and I am sure that there's probably I don't personally know of anything besides like Dungeons and Dragons. And you know, and I am sure that there's probably I don't I don't personally know of anything besides like Dungeons and Dragons, and you know the fantasy games, but I'm sure there's something out there that would be.
Speaker 2:I mean there could be. I know that I don't follow any religion. I feel like I take a lot. I take things out of different, because there's things I believe in, one thing, right, but I don't follow any religion. But I definitely have my altar going Do my spell work when I need to do my spell work.
Speaker 2:But I don't like, I don't like, I don't know, I don't know. And trying to, tony and I were having a conversation earlier. What were we having a conversation about? About, I have a hard time believing in one set of things because there's so many things from okay. So we're talking about movies and like the exorcism okay, or the exorcist, yeah, and I think you know, I believe shit can happen. That's why those kind of things scare me a little bit. But then I also, now that I'm my beliefs have changed over time like do I believe that? Right? You know what I mean yes.
Speaker 2:Yes, your conception is changing your growth that's right, yeah, and your and your soul is opening up more and more to your authentic self, and I love that. I'm gonna throw this out here because we are still doing the verses. Uh, an interesting thing when you hear about angels, how many female angels do you hear about? None, I know of archangel michael rafael. There are many, right, but I that's interesting I've.
Speaker 1:I've never thought about that.
Speaker 2:So that is not Because they go with two goddesses, and so then, where, where is the female mystique in all of this? The only thing in religious things that I see is a virgin Mary, that's it. Well, you have your saints, which are men and women, and what I missed, that I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:Right, right and you know, she are men and women and what I missed.
Speaker 2:That I'm sorry, Right, Right. And you know she was a whore. So they say how horrible is that? But didn't her and Jesus have an affair and have a child together? I think that's a conspiracy.
Speaker 1:I do believe she was his most trusted advisor.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:More than a friend. I think she was his, his right hand man. It was not peter g, it was not luke. It was not john, it was not did she turn away?
Speaker 1:because they have even. It is even stated somewhere and I'm not good with the bible, but I do know that one of the apostles asked why does she get kissed on the lips and we only get on them? It's like, well, you need to ask yourself why does she? Because she's more trusted, so why is she not a bigger deal? I personally think she should have. I mean, when I believed in Christianity and all of that, I really could not understand why she was not a bigger deal. Why is there not a book of Mary? Because she's a woman.
Speaker 1:Because there's the book of John, the book of Matthew, the book of Peter, the book of Mary when is the book of Mary.
Speaker 2:Also, they do have some things about women, but not on that level or scale. Also, here's what I think. I'm going to give my honest opinion about the Bible. It was written thousands of years ago in a dead language. How do we know it's interpreted correctly? How do we know we do not? We're finding so much? How do we know it's interpreted?
Speaker 1:correctly. How do we know we're finding so?
Speaker 2:much. How do we know there's not more on her than what we are told? How do we know it's interpreted correctly? And for me it's like, yes, there might be a lot of truth in parts of it, but for me it's like a fantasy novel like harry potter. I mean, yes, there's a little bit of truth there, but who lives.
Speaker 1:There's the parables of like. Okay, one of my favorite um authors that I've been listening to lately, um, it's a dr. Clarice piccoli is death and she is folk magic, so she will tell stories of like jack and the beanstalk, except from her culture. And all of those stories have meaning, right, and they have, you know, lessons to be learned and all of that. And that is exactly to me what the bible is. It is a book of stories that tells to help you learn right from wrong. But reality, reality is do you really need a book?
Speaker 2:Well, I will say this okay, because the Bible has shown me some things in this lifetime that took me by surprise and when I kept hearing, it called the living word, and I'm like what living word? And I'm like what well. It became the living word to me when I realized that this book is full of knowledge, it's full of wisdom, it's full of history. There's okay, there's no reason I've been able to, over time, read something that I have read before, which may have bored the tears out of me, and then suddenly it's alive to me because I have grown and I have understood. But that doesn't mean that you cannot find that within life and other aspects of learning and teaching and growing. That's like why do you have to go to church in order to be a child of God? Why do you have to go to church to be saved? Why can't you do that from your own living room, from being out in nature?
Speaker 2:I believe you can Right 100%. You don't have to go to church to be a good person. No, you just need to have that within yourself. That's what it's all about. It is what is within you, and you have to allow it to come out.
Speaker 2:But here's the thing we come here and we as brand new souls okay, we come here and we have all of this with us, all of this with us, and then we are conditioned, as you said, and things are impressed upon us in our head and in their theory of how things should be, and then you become accustomed to what you think is the truth, and I have a good example of that. When you're done and and the one big thing that I want to express here is what you think is the truth Because you know you could have been raised as a wolf in the woods, as a human being, and still believe that that is what you understand to be goodness and truth in your life. But then you live amongst wolves every day of your life and are being put to a test continually of your soul, still trying to come on. Hear me, hear me.
Speaker 1:We get lost.
Speaker 2:I feel like we are all here to learn a lesson. We are all here to learn, evolve on our journey. Right, your soul has a purpose of being here and you learn that. So, when you were talking about the whole, you're conditioned and stuff. For me that's almost like we are all born with gifts and abilities to see the other side of the veil, to see. But then children as children, you're like I see a monster, I see this, and then you're conditioned to believe it's not real. You're seeing things. I personally don't teach my children that monsters aren't real because I don't want them to have those blinders on, and especially my ten-year-old she. I teach her to leave her mind open to okay, okay. So you are seeing this, you're hearing this. Okay, tell me about it, talk to me about it. What are you seeing, what are you hearing?
Speaker 2:But I feel like society as a whole just are conditioned to not see, and I would say that society I would go as big as saying the whole world, from the beginning to now. It's so very twisted and the things that we lack the ability to understand, because those around us who think they know better or have greater influence over time have that if you condition people enough, they'll accept it. But now is a time in our lives and aren't we blessed, happy, joyful, to be experiencing the fact that we can see for ourselves and we can understand with our own soul where things are taking us, and to understand. And you see that small child and they have. I have had many experiences with small children who understand and see. I can look into a child's eyes and see their souls, especially when they're a newbie. It's the best thing ever because they're fresh, they're pure, they're not full of all of the things that come upon us, and so when we get here, we're basically clean. I'm going to use that example. We're basically clean and then everything starts to cling onto us and we become dragged down and bogged down and dirty, and because our filter needs to be cleaned, we need to understand further and greater. But people want us to have blinders so that we may not see.
Speaker 2:Because why Fear? They're afraid of what you may understand and what you may know, of what you may understand and what you may know and I'm talking about this in an overall large consumption not consumption collaborative of people and minds and thoughts and souls coming together. That could be very scary to people who are trying to keep the fear within you so that you may not grow and that you may not become a collective thought. Fear also is a way to control you. Well, yes, that's 100% Exactly what I'm saying. Yeah, so this is a time that we live in that's pretty amazing, magical, beautiful, amazing, magical beautiful. It could be scary for those who choose not to see, but those who have been trying to be the controllers are now the people who are now in fear, because those of us who understand are growing greater and greater in numbers every day, and that's a collective spirit of goodness and joy and blessing and seeing things for what they truly are, versus all the things that they have tried to keep you bogged down with and control what's.
Speaker 2:What was the word you used? I love that word. Uh, what word did I when? When conditioning, yeah, conditioning, so we're becoming free at last. I feel like people are more accepting now, but there's still a long way to go right. I that, I don't know, and I suppose that may have sounded like way out of left field. We like that, though, but that is what I see on the continuum of a larger scale of things, and if we can all just understand the power that we have within us and coming together. People need to understand I don't fear your beliefs. You don't have to fear mine. Right, what is right for you is right for you. What is right for me is right for me.
Speaker 1:Um, you can't and and I, yeah to thine own self, be true and authentic self, become raw. You know, um, yeah, you know it'll bring up christianity and stuff. You know there's not all bad christians. I want to, I want to point out that there's really good, good, good christians and that they really are very what of christ in a it. Um, I believe christ wanted per se and I I'm saying that because I'm thinking of my, my ex-husband, my kids dad is, is very, very and he is one that, if I mean, he practices what he preaches you know, I love that and that's 100 percent, and that, just you know, is being your true, authentic self.
Speaker 1:And I, you know, as you were talking about the Bible and how you had found life within it and stuff, and I was thinking about when we were married and I would I catch glimpses of his Bible, about when we were married and I would I'd catch glimpses of his Bible. And it's incredible because I mean, it is well-used, it is a very well-used Bible, let's put it that way and it has paper sticking out and this and that. And I know it hasn't changed because I know him, you know, and I and I, when you were talking about that, I was, my heart was going and when you were talking about that, my heart was going. Hmm, yes, she's right, because I was speaking badly about it right prior to that and I'm like I don't even know the Bible, so I can't really speak much on it. But as I was listening to you and thinking of him, yeah, you're right, that Bible has held, you know, life for countless people Countless time.
Speaker 2:Yes, where you know, things may have been interpreted Differently, changed Within or withheld. Huge thing, that information is all, but then again it comes back to. That's what brings me back to the collective, because Jesus is about the collective. Jesus, I like Jesus and I said this before. When I realized Jesus is my brother man, that was a whole different story for me. Because Jesus is my brother, I understand that I can love, I love my brother and I could look to my brother for help, um, and I hopefully can trust my brother, you know, and. But the things that he portrayed were how, how to love unconditionally, and that's a beautiful thing and I'm never gonna knock that because I like that. He was a healer, he was a prophet, he had abilities that he would have been called a witch.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, I hear a lot about you shouldn't know your future, you shouldn't people who can communicate with spirits, this and that it's bad, but he did all that, he. He rose people from the dead. He rose from the dead.
Speaker 1:Yes, you know, um, that I rose from the dead. I sorry, I rose from the yes on on december 1st of all I go, december 2nd 2012. I rose from the dead. I I was in the bathroom trying to fucking kill myself, slicing my wrist, drunk off my ass, and I woke up, came to a whole new person. You know, I rose from the dead, that person, that that girl. She don't exist anymore because I killed her. I killed her in the bathroom. She does not exist Now. So do I believe that I rose from the dead? Absolutely I do, because I have a whole new life compared to what I have now and I think that any time you go through any kind, of major?
Speaker 1:Yes, did you. The birth of Matthew yes, indeed.
Speaker 2:I remember okay, so those who don't know in 2004, I had a baby that was stillborn and of course I grieved, of course I was sad, of course I thought why, why is this happening? But then I thought, as Mel would say, there's a purpose for everything. I've said reason, but she says I try to say that now, purpose. There's a purpose for everything. And so when, of course, the first couple of weeks, I was very quiet to myself, but when people saw me at his funeral and all that, and they said, how do you not look sad right now? Because there was a purpose this happened, there's a reason this happened.
Speaker 2:So I felt like it was a really big growing experience for me spiritually and it was made it easier for me to grieve and move on with my life. Yeah, I'm not the same person I was before that happened, so that's a good example there. Yes, it is Trying to think if, there, I don't think there's any other really major occurrences that you can say that just changed my life, that is, that is one of them Complete?
Speaker 2:That is definitely one of them. And if I didn't think there was a lesson for me in that experience or a lesson for other people in that experience? Because that's what I think our souls are here for. We're here to learn something and we're here to teach other other souls and we keep getting like reincarnated and we keep living a life until we've learned those lessons and met those goals. And well, and just to add to that, I really love to embrace this life that I'm in right now. I I don't have a great desire to look into a life that I may have lived and I'm not close to that. I just am not interested in that right now. I know these things for myself. I know that I'm a very old soul. I have prayed in my very young life for wisdom, knowledge and understanding. I have to say, when you ask for those things, when you pray for it, chant for it.
Speaker 2:However, you want to do it. I feel like a lot of young people wouldn't know to do that. So you know what Good for you, and it brings with it a lot of things, a lot of things. So I would say this I've experienced just about every commandment. I have experienced things that were brutal. I have experienced things that were of great joy.
Speaker 2:You definitely have some stories. I have lived a pretty adventurous life, let's put it that way Not without lessons, not without joy and not without understanding. And I have to say, in this moment, my greatest joy is experiencing this with you, ladies, miss Casey, today, but experiencing this and being able to share what I understand and what my soul wants to speak, it's just such a wonderful thing. Speak it's just such a wonderful thing. And I think that if more people chose to embrace their soul and trust it because there's one thing I can guarantee you in this life, your soul will never ever lie to you, I'd like, to your intuition, trust that first gut instinct, that feeling you have, because that is your soul telling you which way you're supposed to be going.
Speaker 2:And you do have to listen. You know you do have to listen. I haven't listened a lot, I mean, I've been the rebellious so hard, it's not easy it's not easy, but I don't think it's meant to be easy well, you got the clamors of the world right, you have people telling you you're crazy.
Speaker 1:Well, that's true and that's one thing you know, and then you think to yourself I can't say anything because people will think I'm well, that's, that's that shit crazy honestly.
Speaker 2:I mean, that is one thing. When I talk about spirits coming to me, I have a message that spirit wants me to give you, but I feel crazy when I say it because that's what society has made me feel like I. I'm crazy. I have known people who have these gifts and abilities and we talked about this earlier who have been told you're mentally unstable, you're schizophrenic, you're this, you're that, because you're hearing voices, you're seeing things? No, maybe you're not.
Speaker 1:And there's a fine line. There is a fine. There is.
Speaker 2:There is a fine I I agree with that and and I'm gonna just share one story I know we're getting long on time, but I'm gonna share one story and this has to do with my dad and I was an adult and he was having a rough time and needed some help health issues and whatever, getting older and some family issues, and so at that time we were kind of separated, that's, you know, just like nah, I don't need that kind of business in my life.
Speaker 2:In my life, however, as crazy as I may sound, he has a younger brother who passed away when he was 12 and he died of brain cancer, and they lived in California and came back to Wisconsin and he got to see his first snow before he passed.
Speaker 1:I can't quote that for sure.
Speaker 2:But one day, at my house, in the middle of this, all this disturbance between our family and such, I hear this beautiful young soul talking to me hi, this is, you know, your uncle Michael I. Your dad's in trouble and you need to give him a message. And I was like man. My dad doesn't believe in any of this crap. That's what he'd call it crap. He was struggling and I was like man. No, you have to go tell him. You have to go tell him.
Speaker 2:And he lived, you know probably 30 miles away, and I'm like, oh my gosh, for one people know that it wasn't easy for me to drive those 30 miles because that's out of my driving radius. However, I just it was pressed upon me to do this and I'm like, oh my god, he's gonna think I'm out of my freaking mind, and so I get there and I'm a little nervous because you know, we're a little estranged at the time and I said, well, I came here to tell you something that Michael wanted me to tell you.
Speaker 2:And he became very attentive and I was like, okay, I'm blown away by that. But Michael told me something about a moment that they had shared in San Juan Capistrano and it had to do with birds and all these birds, and this makes me choked up. And my dad was like what I said? Well, that's what he told me to tell you. Think about it when we were together with the birds, and he stopped and he took a breath and, you know, looked at me and he was like, okay, tell me more.
Speaker 2:And this is a John Wayne kind of guy. So he's like, yeah, get out of here with your horseshit. But he just listened and it was a very beautiful exchange and I had no idea. I mean how would I know? I very beautiful exchange and I had no idea.
Speaker 1:I mean how would I know I wasn't even born, I had no idea.
Speaker 2:But this was a very special moment between these two people, these two souls and they connected. Do you? Know how amazing it is to tell somebody something like that and have them. Do you know how scary it is? But to have them, well, I do, because I've had to give messages. I've had spirits tell me, give this person.
Speaker 2:Say that you know yes and I feel yeah, I feel crazy when I say it, but, like I said, that's because I've been conditioned to think that. Right, it's fucking crazy to have tell somebody something like that and have them believe what you're saying.
Speaker 1:And embrace it and feel it in their heart.
Speaker 2:It was the beginning of a very lovely time that we spent together Like a weight off your shoulders.
Speaker 2:It's hard to explain what it felt like, but then you know, my dad and I, after being in this strange situation, ended up spending time together and talking about everything. This was beautiful, his way of bringing you two together. It's not that he necessarily wanted to give your dad a message. He wanted you two to come together, so you just wanted me to cry, or what? Yeah, I'm sorry that just came to me. Me, that was the voice I heard in my head.
Speaker 1:Okay, you might not put that, that memory, because it's really cool, because you're sitting there telling that memory of the birds and the tree or the birds. I could see it and what was cool is that I was telling you about the books, that I listened to the lady that and the folk tells. Well, she has a story and I believe it's the dangerous old woman about the birds in the trees, the red birds in the trees. Don't forget about the red birds in the trees that they saw and that's how she would say, how she talked about it. And when you were talking and I was just thinking of that, I'm getting more goosebumps. Those itty bitty, teeny, weeny little moments are the moments that came the most.
Speaker 2:And that is how that just connected you two. Yeah, 100%, there's a purpose why we're having this conversation, I believe. All things see, and that is what I was talking about in the collective.
Speaker 1:In the collective. I love when you keep bringing that up, because I keep being frustrated with the collective, because I'm like why isn't the collective moving? It is, it is. You just didn't see it. I just didn't see it until you said something about the collective and adding something to the collective and I was like, well, shit, we're adding to the collective.
Speaker 2:Well, and if you think about it, if I said we are all here in a certain life to learn certain things, so you learning those things in this lifetime, so, yeah, it's going to move slow because you only learn so much per lifetime, does that make sense?
Speaker 1:but is it slow?
Speaker 2:I mean it's probably it does not I mean, I mean that's just it.
Speaker 1:We think that if you think about it too. But reality is is a hundred years, you're given a hundred years. Think about that.
Speaker 2:Well, if you think about this too is time here moves slowly, but time on the other side of the veil there is no time it doesn't like. That is very true. It could be a hundred years here, but it's more over there.
Speaker 1:I'm going to save this.
Speaker 2:I love how we're all over the place. Well because that just brings us in a greater collective spirit of understanding with one another. So my aunt, my dad's sister, told me this once and I've never forgotten it, and I used to have some issue with some depression and she was like just remember this. You take a jar and you put some sand in it, some rocks, this and that. Just remember as you layered. Just remember as you layered. Typically, a person has 75 summers, 75 springs, 75 falls, 75 winters.
Speaker 2:Now, when you look at that and a greater picture. It really isn't all that much, is it? That's kind of a scary thought if you really think about it, and I'm 62. I've used a lot of them already Now. Granted, I'm not going to say that I regret my life. I've grown immensely through it all. It just sucks that when you get to a certain place, then your body starts saying, eh, you can't blow.
Speaker 1:And we're not going to say that.
Speaker 2:Because you're just not saying that, because you're just no, I'm daring it. Do you want to know? A fear of mine and this might seem really off the wall and weird is that I've gotten through this lifetime. I was an anxious little kid. I hated school. I was super shy. I just was sick to my stomach every day. I didn't want to go to school. I didn't like being around people and to think, if we have more than one lifetime and I'd have to go through all that, I worry about these things. I know it seems irrational. I worry about why I need to go through all that. I can't believe you use the word irrational in this whole conversation.
Speaker 2:Uh, but no, that is not so that is not so far out there, but and I hope that in my next life I don't go through all that. Quite honestly, I'm just going to tell you this Christine, be in this life right now be in this moment, enjoy where you're at. Things are going it also. It also takes me back to you. Do you ever sit there and lay in bed and think, oh my God, I can't believe I did that as a kid, and start stressing over something you did years ago?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And so this is kind of like that, only in and of itself. Oh you, I go both directions, okay.
Speaker 2:Now here's the thing If I give you, okay. Now here's the thing If I give you a cake, you can take a slice, or you can eat the whole thing. If you eat the whole thing, you're going to be sick. If you take the slice, you're going to be okay. Take the slice. Take the slice and think about this, and I'm going to bring back another Bible thing. Who was it? Oh my gosh, I've got to think, gotta think. This name, 40 moses, 40 years, 40 years lost in the wilderness is the phrase that is used. He grew up, did all that business and then he was gone for 40 years in the wilderness. Now, if you look at biblical times, people did live a lot longer, like hundreds of years so him coming back and figuring things out, but he had to be in the wilderness.
Speaker 2:He had to be in the wilderness to grow to, to learn to understand Because you have a lot of time to reflect Exactly, and reflecting and growing is a huge part of who we are in our souls. But when he came back, he did great things. Great things, whether you believe it or not, and whether it's just a story Okay, there's great things that happened. There's lessons to be learned in all of it or not, and whether it's just a story Okay.
Speaker 2:There's great things that happen. There's lessons to be learned in all of it? Well, certainly, and so if you figure you're in your early 40s, if it took you 40 years in the wilderness to get to this point, you are doing damn good.
Speaker 2:Ladies high fives all around Must do it. I don't know if you could hear that, but we did it, we did it. But you know there are things to be realized, recognized and accepted and appreciated Definitely appreciated and I will just say that I truly appreciate this opportunity to have these discussions with you and casey, and just these discussions with you out there. I'm glad mel was here today, me too, and, and that maybe something we said sparks a thought in you or lights a fire in you or makes your soul feel alive, and that to me would be like awesome. I think my big lesson today is don't fear what you don't know. There's no harm in learning about things, true, and don't judge people for their beliefs. Right, yeah, you know. I mean, maybe you can be a brain surgeon if you want to. Just don't jump out there without a little help first.
Speaker 1:I was thinking no, I don't want a brain surgeon. Well, these are really simple. I just want to be an old crone in the woods. That's all I think that's reasonable. Be an old crone in the woods, that's all I think, that's reasonable.
Speaker 2:I want to be in the woods too. Yeah, apparently, I'm trying to head that way, but I need to be by water. Yeah, water is good. I need water. It brings me peace and it makes me feel very alive.
Speaker 1:I need water, but I need balance. You have a really good relationship with the water element.
Speaker 2:Which is crazy because I've almost drowned Several times. As a kid had several incidents, but the first time. Is that why you gave me that look when I said I almost drowned. Yes, yes. And when I first went to the ocean I don't want to say I was over 40, and I looked at it and it was so vast and beautiful. I just felt this instant connection, and my daughter was with me are we the same.
Speaker 2:Because, and there were all these birds, and I have say I felt like I was seven. And why? Because seven's a very beautiful time, because you still love everything, you still hold hands with your little friend Boy, girl doesn't matter, you're just a sweet little thing. Boys didn't have cooties, right. And I looked at that water and I was running along the shore, shore, and there were all those birds and she's like you should just go.
Speaker 2:I said I kind of want to go run over there she's like do it, and so, just like a small child, I ran and all those birds flew up on her way you know it was it was, but it was awesome and my soul was very connected there. So therefore I need water.
Speaker 2:Do you want to hear something crazy? Yes, always. I mean, I went to the ocean when I was really little, I don't remember, but the first time I considered myself going to the ocean I was over 40. And it was an instant connection. I always thought I need to be in the mountains. That's where my soul to be. In the mountains I need which I. That's where my soul belongs in the mountains. But I definitely, once I went to the ocean, I did feel a connection and I did take a lot of pictures of sitting at a restaurant on the beach in the sand with birds you sure did I did.
Speaker 2:I did so. There's a connection with me and you right there and I would never say you, your soul is gonna let you know that connection, if you have connection to the mountains, I mean I have connections to Virginia in my heart, in my soul, somewhere, somehow, some way Pacific Northwest, but for me the ocean is my very best piece For me. I belong here in Coloradoado, but I believe I've grand lake.
Speaker 1:Grand lake is where I'm I always thought I belonged here in colorado, I mean I was.
Speaker 2:I kind of thought it too, but I just wanted to try it oh yeah, I'm ready, man.
Speaker 1:yeah, that first instance of, uh yeah, the trees and the ocean in the pacific, yep that.
Speaker 2:And mind you, Mel did go get to see the Redwood Forest and she probably hugged a tree or tried. I hugged many trees Because I wanted to do that.
Speaker 1:I absolutely did hug many trees.
Speaker 2:Can you imagine? Not only did I hug the trees.
Speaker 1:I petted the moths and talked to the moths. I hugged the trees. I petted the moths and talked to the moths.
Speaker 2:The mist and the rain, just to just stand there. It just connected with you, didn't it? It was just absolutely.
Speaker 1:Do you know what it was the most incredible? Even now, when I look back at pictures and stuff like that, it's just like my whole being just goes. I remember how I felt walking down that path and it's like and then I'll come back to here and it's like, oh, but I love it here. Don't get me wrong, because no, on the way back it was like I need my mountains, I need my right, that's anytime.
Speaker 2:so, like, the furthest east I've ever gone is missouri, which is not far, but you can't see the mountains. You can't see the mountains. So anytime we're driving home, as soon as I can see those mountains, I'm like okay, I'm home, Even if I'm still a couple hours away. I didn't grow up here, but I have to say, when I've been away or whatever, when I see the mountains, I know I'm home too, and the first time I got to go up into the mountains I cried like a small child, like that seven-year-old.
Speaker 1:It was like I had my sunglasses on, I had john denver playing and I'm like oh my god, when I hiked up my first mountain, mount elbert, which is the highest point in colorado, that is the highest mountain, that is the where you can stand. I mean, I stepped over that.
Speaker 2:That there was, you feel like at the top of the world and I've all lost it because it was like that was incredible.
Speaker 1:It was an incredible feat. First of all, to you know, walk up that and then to stand there and have it to myself, all to myself, during a sunset.
Speaker 2:It was absolutely so, yeah my son keeps talking about wanting to take a cross-country road trip and he wants to start with the west coast and head east. But he was talking about going to the redwoods and all that. And I started talking to him about your trip and everything you did. And don't be surprised if he asks you one of these dates, because he's totally dead set on going all the way he wants to go to Oregon.
Speaker 1:He wants to go you better stop in Virginia.
Speaker 2:Fun fact here is you're both Libras, so I wonder if that also has a lot to do with.
Speaker 1:I don't know. See, I'm really Everything I believed was kind of thrown out the window by, by the whole birth chart. And really looking into that, okay, because yes, I'm a Libra, but I'm a Virgo rising, right, so if I'm a Virgo rising with my moon in Virgo, right, I still haven't figured all that out. It throws me a little bit, different than all the different houses, and I'm just like holy smoke Because I would always go off of what Libra is. You know, strictly Libra, and I was always going, but I don't feel that way.
Speaker 2:That's not what you mean. You've got to think about your moon, your rising. But then I started doing that.
Speaker 1:And then I started reading about and I'm like, oh Well, bite me in the nose. That's not really what I want to say you know, not nothing against virgos, because my daughter's a virgo, love my virgo. But see, now I want to find out what she is but now I'm just like holy moly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, I just did a recording. Over the weekend with another podcast I have my guest on and we talked about zodiacs and by the end of it we gave each zodiac a description of traits positive, negative and we but then I said at the end of it I go, you know what? You can't go by?
Speaker 1:just this, I go, you got your sun, moon rising, depends on what house it's in, and all this and then you got the planets that are affecting your this and that because, like you know, with this whole new moon, you know you'll find out where pisces is. Because if you find out what house is pisces is, then you can oh, we just started pisces halfway through yeah, and we're in pisces is in retro and all of this.
Speaker 1:So I believe my what do I have? My sixth and my seventh house is pisces and I'm like this is very so it's like a health and I don't remember what. The seventh I haven't done, I haven't gotten that far anyway.
Speaker 2:So that's very intricate of trying to understand. I have thought this, though it's crazy yeah, I have thought this, though, since I'm doing the whole birth chart and all the houses I'm in the middle of the series I was like, okay, this is a listener request, which was mel here and then I thought halfway through it fuck, what did I get into? Why am I doing this?
Speaker 1:because it is so much right. But see, I'm learning so much because then I don't have to do the research, and then she reads it and then I'm like I go back oh okay, so here's where that is and that's my house. And now that's what that means. And I'm like, yes, I listen to a lot of other podcasters who talk about the house. They just didn't explain it to me in the simplest, and that's what I'm doing.
Speaker 2:I'm giving you the simplest, but I'm also posting in the notes a link to the website where I'm getting all this where you can get more in depth in each one and get more details, which is what?
Speaker 1:well, you know, yeah, yeah, kind of. What I like to do is I find one thing and then I start going further in, like like, like the, the, you know, the moons. Like I went to the new moon ritual and on the way down, when I was talking to one of my friends and she was like and and what do you think about the dark moon? And I was like, well, wait a minute. And she was like you know about that? And I was like, well, kind of, and then we started talking and I'm like holy smokes. So now I have you know, and I want to start looking into that, because that's where my shadow is right now what the fuck is that?
Speaker 2:there you go. I have no clue about. She's clueless. Yes, I am. So after the houses, we're going to get into elements which I hope you're coming on for the elements yeah, I got it. And we're going to, because it depends on what element you're signing, because, okay, like Capricorn is an earth sign and all that, but is it in your house that you're well see?
Speaker 1:and then there's, there's also. See my uh libras are air signs with a fixed fire. So I'm a I'm I've got a lot of fire I have one question about air feeds the fire so all of this and that explains why I'm a whirlwind.
Speaker 2:A lot is this, is this, and my emotions are stuff from like galileo and way back when, and, isaac newton, is this the time frame of when people are seeing and understanding these things? Astrology in your zodiacs? The planet, I mean, it depends on what you're looking at. Are you looking at western zodiacs? Are you looking at? Because there's different for every culture, but a lot of our Western zodiacs come from Greek mythology, and that was one thing I learned when I was doing this show with this other that I'm going to be a guest on is the constellations and all that Zeus would reward people by making them a constellation. I don't understand how that works, or he would not reward them by making them a consolation.
Speaker 1:Pretty much, you're stuck in the sky for all eternity. It's kind of how he would do it too. I don't know like after he had punished you he was like hey number, but you're right there and I and that's one thing I definitely believe a lot in is the greek mythology and the gods and goddesses.
Speaker 2:They are also very similar to roman mythology. In their gods and goddesses they might be named a little different, but concepts are very simple okay this is a little.
Speaker 1:I love a little off topic.
Speaker 2:I guess we've gone way off topic I just want to say, as you two speaking, this is more of the collective.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's very beautiful.
Speaker 2:But what I was going to talk about, or off topic, is that in the Hispanic culture of I don't know if I'm going to say it right, okay, I'll let you know Son of a, come on, okay, del Del Morte, the female, where are they? Which means death? I'll let you know.
Speaker 1:Son of a Come on Del Del Del morte, the female.
Speaker 2:Where are they? Which means death Right, so I'm going off A kid's movie.
Speaker 1:But I do believe.
Speaker 2:The book of life. Yes, I love that movie. I believe that that Is a real Deal Of another Belief system, actually terrible, and then having the altar Of loving, and so I don't, I don't believe that. None of it's real.
Speaker 1:I believe it's all real I mean, I know it's a cartoon in your perspective.
Speaker 2:If it's right for you, it's right for you is if you want to believe in I know this is not you, but if you want to believe in catholic know this is not you, but if you want to believe in Catholicism, then hey, that is right for you and it's real for you. Does that make?
Speaker 1:sense. It kind of goes back to when you guys were talking about death, the last time of heaven and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:When you die, If you believe in one, you have to believe in the other, kind of thing that's you.
Speaker 1:That's what you said. I don't believe that. I kind of think, and I had heard, that when you go, you go to wherever it is you believe.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if you believe, heaven is that is where you go, see, and that's why that movie I told you about, if you believe that somebody comes and gets you so well. Like I said, in the last episode. I like it all. I like all of those things In the last episode we did.
Speaker 1:I said that my mom always said if you believe in one, you have to believe in the other.
Speaker 2:And I'm like but I don't believe in hell, I don't believe that people are punished and sent and tortured for all eternity.
Speaker 1:Okay, think about this for a second. What would Michaela have to do in order for you to send her to hell?
Speaker 2:In order for her to burn.
Speaker 1:I love my children no matter what To punish them. That badly See, and I think that's where I have such an issue with the whole heaven and hell. But who came up with this crap? Come hell. But who came up with this?
Speaker 2:crap. Come on, who really came up with this crap? God says we are all his children. Okay, and I'm going to bring that piece back in, and I know I'm the other third wheel. But it's a good opinion to throw out there. But God loves his children, so we are all his children.
Speaker 1:Jesus is my brother.
Speaker 2:And see, that's why I don't believe in that, because as you love your children, god loves you more. So, why would that ever be the case?
Speaker 1:Why would that ever be a threat? Here's a question why would you have to condition anybody to do the link? Do you think that Hitler?
Speaker 2:deserves to be loved by God and go in.
Speaker 1:Here's the thing.
Speaker 2:Here's the thing. I think this is my belief, and you don't have to agree with me. I believe because I believe in the reincarnation. You're here to learn a lesson. You're here for a certain purpose. Maybe his purpose was here to be a shitty ass person, maybe I don't know, but if you're a shitty ass person in this life, karma is going to hit you in the next you're a karma witch, say my, I am.
Speaker 1:I am too. I was thinking that the last time, because I kept hearing you say the word karma and I kept hearing you going back to karma so well and here's the thing that I've also been learning lately is there's a lot of people who don't believe in karma really, oh, yes, yes, oh yeah, so then I start thinking about it.
Speaker 2:okay, if you're not wicked, wiccans are very big on the, the karma thing, the three threefold rule, but people who are just witches necessarily don't believe in it and it's a balance between light and dark. Hmm, I would like to believe that, but I really struggle with believing that, because I feel like if you're a bad person, karma's going to get you.
Speaker 2:Your lesson will be learned at some point in time, so I feel like in the next life might not be as easy, because you were a shitty person in the previous. I don't know. I mean, we don't know. I don't feel like we're supposed to know what happens, because then how are you going to? Learn anything. Do you know what I mean? Well, that makes perfect sense, and I have enjoyed this so much that my field guides and eyes, and whatever it's making you think, even larger, and the thing is, I believe in all of these things, so I therefore just take it all in so you're a lot like me, where you take beliefs out of different cultures.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But I actually have an understanding of it and it is well with my soul and that's the best thing I can possibly have happening in my world. I just hear your talk like, like, like, like. Oh my goodness, this has been a really good conversation indeed. Yes, I agree and I feel like we've all learned from each other.
Speaker 2:I think that we have, and it's been beautiful, and I hope that all of you out there listening have been able to glean at least a mustard seed worth of information that causes you to think and rethink and open up your eyes and enjoy life and trust your soul always and forever, and if not, just as long as you enjoyed our conversation. Well, I mean there's some people who are going to be like yeah, I don't agree with any of that shit. Right, You're all full of shit. It's crazy.
Speaker 1:And that's all right. That's okay, Because you know.
Speaker 2:I mean, yeah, we're not here to judge anyone's beliefs, keep your mind open.
Speaker 1:Don't be afraid of what other people believe.
Speaker 2:I think that was my whole point with the start of the conversation.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes.
Speaker 2:Don't be afraid of somebody because of what they believe.
Speaker 1:I know personally for myself, when I practice witchcraft, and I'll say it out loud because that's a huge thing, because now I'm putting it out there, yes, you have you know, because that's a huge thing, because now I'm putting it out there, yes, you have, you know, and that's a big manifestation, and you know what. It's hard to say those words out loud.
Speaker 2:Yes, it is, because I still struggle with it.
Speaker 1:I mean, I can do it for myself, I can say it, I can practice by myself.
Speaker 2:Because I think even talking to you at work I'm like spell book that I just got weird about it. But it's only because I'm conditioned to feel that way.
Speaker 1:So, but, however, what to go on with that is that when I, when I get up in the morning and I go out and I I greet the directions and the elements, and I sit down and I read a card that I pulled for the day of how to be of service, because that is what I ask is how am I going to be of service today? Some days are really bad, you know, and I have to really struggle with turning the card around.
Speaker 2:I have to get back into the garden.
Speaker 1:But that's what it does, for me at least, is it starts getting me at least in that frame of mind because you had said it earlier that when the collective starts getting into the collective, then the collective grows. And when I start practicing on a daily basis my witchcraft because I'm going to call it what it is, you know, and it doesn't mean I'm turning anybody into a toad there's a few I'd like to. We're not summoning demons here.
Speaker 2:We are summoning demons.
Speaker 1:I'm a demon enough the way it is. I don't need to summon any more of me.
Speaker 2:And that is fact. You are not no that is fact, because there is a light and dark that's kind of scary sometimes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there is that light and dark. I find no scariness within you. Which wolf am I going to feed? The dark wolf or the light wolf?
Speaker 2:I mean, that does really go to that, hesitant to accept nurturing and kindness, and that's your own personal space and things that are going on within you. However, it goes into the zodiac. So I know I know in my soul that by connecting with you, it causes both of us to be better and stronger.
Speaker 1:That's all I really want to be at this particular time. It's just to be a better human being man. And it's hard sometimes If it's done through Christianity, if it's done through Catholicism, if it's done through Buddhism, if it's done through witchcraft or paganism or Wicca. It's all the concept of right and wrong.
Speaker 2:I'm going to lie to you people and I'm going to say this it all is about love, and that's the bottom line and it goes back to and that's the end of the story.
Speaker 1:With the highest frequency.
Speaker 2:Because it's always love yeah, that's the end of the story Because it's always love. No matter what vibration, energy, thought process, everything is based on love. Even if you're a serial killer, it's based on love, because something happened that you didn't receive this. So and I'm not promoting serial killers- Just saying, you know what I?
Speaker 2:never thought about it like that, but love is the frequency that we all strive for and that we all desire, and when we come to the greater collective and allow ourselves to feel it and be a part of things, we certainly can spread it around everyone we come in contact with Can't say that it's always going to be an easy task. However, over time, that collective will win, because love rules all.
Speaker 1:When it's an easy task, I don't learn. That's true, very true. I just I just like when I'm doing chicken, I'm doing a recipe at work, I don't learn. Well, it's all mechanical, it's easy peasy. Now if I add a little bit of complication in there, like something I'd never made, then I get to learn, that's like you say, recipes.
Speaker 2:When I start, when I try a new recipe, I follow what it says, that way I can tweak it later. See, these are all good processes and over time you learn that you just hear the ingredients and you say okay, and then you can visualize it, you can taste those flavors together and then you can just put it together, and that is the sequence of time understanding knowledge and wisdom.
Speaker 2:Yes, and we ended it on a recipe. That's awesome. What are we at? We're at an hour and and a half, so maybe we need to wrap this up. Definitely, let's maybe do this all again. Yes, I know, because this is fun I enjoy this yes if we can I always like talking spiritual if we can teach people, if we can inspire people.
Speaker 2:That is the whole point of this podcast I can learn and and exactly, and we can learn together and I think by all of us sitting here having this conversation, we learn from each other. We are teaching people and sparking them to think and making their spirit become alive just like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean that's, that's the biggest thing. Yeah is is I like to make people go right, you know, even if it's one little thing exactly, start thinking and start going cosmo what is it?
Speaker 2:it is the say it. What is you forgot? Yeah, the ripple in, oh, the ripple in the water.
Speaker 1:The ripple effect.
Speaker 2:We got to have the ripple effect, it's true yes, yes, right, because you don't know, because you don't know who you're judging I know that when I'm contemplating stuff at work, I definitely go to both of you when I have uh, let me bounce something off of you real quick, because I'm constantly thinking about things. I'm constantly like especially lately more so in the past few months than anything definitely been more contemplating well, I told you a couple months ago you were in that.
Speaker 1:That power or knowledge learning about she's growing so much man and I think that's why I've been struggling so much emotionally. Yeah, because I've been on this emotional roller coaster somebody brought up and and I I don't know if I heard it on a podcast, seen it on a tiktok or whatever it is you are kind of bringing it up with the whole water thing being filled. Okay, think of all that shit that you have inside of you that you want to get rid of a lot, lot of it Okay, especially lately.
Speaker 1:And you're filling up with all this other stuff that you're learning and that you want, and it's filling up, and it's filling up, okay. And it's bubbling and overflowing, but it's not all gone yet, so you have to keep filling and keep filling for it to keep going.
Speaker 2:You're going to keep getting it because all that stuff's now coming to the surface. Right, you're getting it from the bottom and it's coming up. It's okay, there's your show. And they always say growth and moving to that higher vibration can be kind of painful and not easy.
Speaker 1:There's no kind of about it, right, it's not easy people think you're crazy. You think you're crazy. I lay in bed at night crying. You cry for no reason Right.
Speaker 2:I struggle, being alone sometimes.
Speaker 1:You get busy, you just like everything around you. You're like why can't people see what they're doing and you can't explain it? You don't want to be alone.
Speaker 2:But yet you do. At the same time, it's like leave me the fuck alone, nobody understands me. Well, ladies, I'm going to bring this back to this one thing. It is all about love. It is it is. I hate your coasters. They ain't my coasters.
Speaker 1:Jess is going to kill you, though. I'm kidding. Oh, my god, I know where I find. I know where these are. I've seen them. See, she got so embraced with love that she just crushed the coasters in her hands. All right, and what is love? Do you remember? Tell me, love is the unselfish concern for another human being. Period, and just you what is yours.
Speaker 2:I agree with that that. Come on, don't cut up.
Speaker 1:I need to say something, but it is.
Speaker 2:But what is love to you? Very unconditional, it's not all right, I like that, and to me love is the never-ending embrace of soul, heart and mind I have one one another. I had one word and you had that I know I'm gonna break your coaster, so yeah, all right, I'm gonna wrap this up, we're sorry. Follow me on facebook. Instagram. I would say tiktok, but I don't really like posting on there because it's hard. I'm taking this one home. I would say TikTok, but I don't really like posting on there because it's hard.
Speaker 2:I'm taking this one home. Follow me, yeah, on social media. I already said that. Just follow Christine wherever she goes. Go to my website witchy Witching Hour.
Speaker 1:Chronicles.
Speaker 2:Okay, I was giving my email Witching Hour Chroniclesicles. No, it's just wishing hour at buzzsprout. Is it chronicles? I don't know. Holy fuck, you just confused me.
Speaker 1:I thought it was okay, if you go to my website which is in the show notes at the bottom.
Speaker 2:You can click the link. There is a support tab and you can subscribe for as little as $3 a month. That keeps this wonderful podcast going and I would greatly, greatly appreciate it. I also decided, once I get more than one subscriber, I will start doing like bonus episodes and stuff for people who are?
Speaker 2:just subscribers, but I need more than one person to do that. So there you go, um, follow on spotify if you can give a five star rating. I'm also now on apple questions comments. Yeah, um, comment on the episode ideas that you would like to see. She's all over this. If you have any ideas or any recommendations on what you want to hear us discuss, greatly appreciated. You can email me at witchy334 at gmailcom. You can message me on any social media platform. God, tony quit looking at me like that. Okay, okay, peace love and soul.
Speaker 1:yes, and I'm gonna. I'm gonna make a a plug for myself. Oh, yes, yes, yes, no, I own a business. It's called Irene's Cauldron LLC. You can find me at Facebook on Irene's Cauldron LLC and TikTok, same name. Anyways, I brought you girls our new foot and hand powder. I need this desperately. You can put that in and have a little foot soak or hand soak, whichever you prefer.
Speaker 2:Her products are amazing. I use many of them Her candles- the candles are going well. The unscented lotion for people with sensitive skin like me, amazing, fabulous. Okay, I think that's it. That's it, good night. Thank you for inviting me guys.
Speaker 1:Thanks for watching.